Saturday, January 13, 2018

Out of Trump's pie hole and into the fire...

So the internet is on fire over Trumps latest alleged "behind closed doors" remarks about immigration - and this post I did on Facebook today certainly drew the fire of the bleeding heart left.  Following is my post combined with some of my replies to comments.   Disclaimer:  Trump is an idiot, but this nonsense is really not worthy of the amount of discussion it is getting and here is why:
1. Why is anyone surprised about what comes out of Trump's pie hole? 2. You can bet that over the years, all kinds of "cruel remarks" have come out of every president's mouth (behind closed doors). 3. While it may be difficult to hear about who we should welcome into this country...Trump does make a somewhat valid point. 4. The bitter truth is that immigrants from counties like Haiti do not necessarily add as much value to our population as those who come from countries where the people experience a higher level of education and economic stability. 5. In reality, when it comes to countries in the world that could be considered "shit holes" - Haiti ranks pretty high on the list.
According to a 2006 report by the Corruption Perceptions Index, the nation ranked first of all countries surveyed for levels of domestic corruption. Haiti ranked last among North American countries in the World Economic Forum's Network Readiness Index (NRI) – an indicator for determining the development level of a country's information and communication technologies. Due to the racial caste system instituted in colonial Haiti, Haitian mulattoes (comprising 5% of the nation's population) became the nation's social elite and racially privileged and remain so to this day. Seven out of ten Haitians live on less than US$2 a day. Haiti is among the poorest — and the most unequal —countries in Latin America with 6.3 million out of 10 million Haitians unable to meet their basic food needs. Roughly 75% of Haitian households lack running water. Unsafe water, along with inadequate housing and unsanitary living conditions, contributes to the high incidence of infectious diseases. There is a chronic shortage of health care personnel and hospital resources. The infant mortality rate in Haiti is approximately 60 deaths per 1,000 live births, compared to a rate of 6 per 1,000 in other countries.  Nearly half the population is illiterate. Over 80% of those who manage to graduate with a degree from a university in Haiti choose to live elsewhere because they know what a "shit hole" Haiti is. The simple fact is that immigrants were far more welcome in the 1800's only because we needed a cheap labor force to build this country. They didn't have to be smart...they just had to work hard and they were able to earn a far better wage here than they could from the shit hole countries they escaped. The problem is that if you look back at history you find that the rather large percentage of people who came to this country with little money and/or education HAD to work hard over time to build businesses, get an education for themselves and their children and become contributing members of society because there were no huge government handouts for them. With the amount of social programs we have now, there is far less incentive to do the work necessary or even learn the language for that matter, and we no longer have to fill nearly as many brute force labor jobs that don't require any education.  Those who flock here now with no money or education simply (and willingly) become a burden on society and our national debt.  FYI - Our country's motto in regard to immigrants was never "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".  This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.  In the early 1900's and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statue.

44 comments:

Ronald Mahan said...

I believe President Trump is correct in asking 1) for about 700 miles of wall & other border security improvements 2) an end to chain immigration 3) and an end to lottery immigration. All necessary - necessary to minimize a repeat of the DACCA problem - in return for his approval of the DACCA issue. To just approve the DACCA - without trying to prevent a reoccurrence - is just crazy and will result in a future DACCA problem. President Reagan - thought he had solved the problem - but failed to slow legal immigration - and now we have millions more. And make no mistake about the cost for American taxpayers - billions off dollars of increased tax for welfare payments and more billions because of the narcotics trade. America is a rich country - but not rich enough to support all the world poor people & combat a serious narcotics problem.

I think that was the message - Trump was trying to tell the congressmen - when he put his foot in his mouth.

John Wells said...

Regardless of what Trump was trying to convey...while his stance on immigration is relatively correct - he is still an idiot and an embarrassment to this country. It is unfortunate that so many people in the US hold him to such high esteem. They are obviously no smarter than the people that Trump would like to keep out of this country. His election was not about the lesser of two evils...it was about the choice of evils.

Dale said...

Where in all history has a wall served the purpose for which it was built. The Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall, The Maginot Line, Berlin Wall. But I don't care I won't be paying for it...reaping the rewards of a lifetime of investing in the social security system.

John Wells said...

This post has nothing to do with building a border wall, but actually...a physical barrier does wonders as opposed to a wide open border.

John Wells said...

As for reaping the rewards of a lifetime of investing in the social security system...depending on how long you live, you will most likely reap far more that you ever put into it. Hopefully, that will happen before the giant ponzie scheme crashes.

. . . . . said...

Very thorough and educational. Thanks!

Dale said...

Only if the spirit it weak

Aloe Blacc - Wake me up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_o6axAseak

Billy ray said...

John, I haven't been watching the news lately .he may very well be a idiot but I did not vote for Hillary or before Obama and there dancing around the American people for foreign interest. I voted for Trump for this kind of reason, he's a disrupter.nobody in power gives a care about the common man plain and simple.

Steve said...

You want to see an end to illegal immigrants coming across the border? Make it a federal crime to employ them. Lock up the employers. You will see a sudden wave of people heading back across the border. Get those white boys out there picking those tomatoes and building those houses for minimum wage. LOL

Hachita said...

Humans and all other life forms migrate. It’s inherent in our DNA/RNA. Nationally, reasonable rules must be established. As was mentioned, the U.S. is rich but not enough to singly raise the world’s standard of living to what we’ve achieved.

Among recent U.S. presidents, Trump is an exceptionally incurious, naïve, and emotionally immature one, even if he has excellent crowd manipulation skills and has made a lot of money (helps when you inherit a lot).

Most likely we will survive him and the next three years and move toward something better.

Migration has worked well for a long time.

Texas Guy said...

Having traveled the world as a sailor in the Navy, I experienced first hand what he was referring to. I think he is more correct in a lot of matters than given credit for. I just wish he would temper his outburst's at times, but I love him more each day because he says what a lot of us FORGOTTEN men think.

Larry G said...

Take a look at WHO actually LEGALLY immigrates to the US
in numbers: don't know which ones are Shithole countries
.. but I'm sure that some folks have their opinions...

Country 2015

1. Mexico 158,619
2. China 74,558
3. India 64,116
4. Philippines 56,478
5. Cuba 54,396
6. Dominican Rep 50,610
7. Vietnam 30,832
8. Iraq 21,107
9. El Salvador 19,487
10. Pakistan 18,057


There are requirements.. education, language , and they
have to have enough money to be self-supporting or have job.

they just don't get on a plane and land and go to the welfare office to get
your money and an apartment... It don't work like that.

Illegal is a different kettle of fish.

The DACA folks are largely offspring of illegal immigrants..not legal immigrants..

If we actually enforced E-Verify- like Canada does with it's guest-worker
program - where it's almost impossible for an undocumented to get a job because
the employer will be fined so high that it can drive them out of business - so
the number of undocumented in Canada is miniscule compared to here.

What's happening is that some low-life businesses WANT illegals because they don't have to pay them a fair wage .. can work them 60 hours a week, cheat them on their paychecks, etc , because they know they can't go to the govt or they'll get deported.

So we have an E-Verify program in name only and it rewards bad employers by encouraging illegal immigration.

So the abused illegals do what they must do to keep their jobs, live their lives, have kids.. voila - "dreamers".

A wall won't fix this. there are 2000 miles of coastline and balloons and tunnels.. people will find a way if they know they can get a job. And the bad employers lobby Congress to keep E-Verify weak.


I agree we need to fix immigration because it IS broke, but there is a whole lot of ignorance and demagoguery going on... and we're not going to find common ground or compromise when a good number don't want it anyhow.

This has been a problem for a LONG TIME and the GOP can't even agree themselves on what to do... they're split down the middle also.. and that's why they need the Dems ... but you're not going to get the Dems unless you compromise.. Fix E-Verify.. and acknowledge the reality that a physical wall is not going to stop people when there are so many ways around it and a virtually guaranteed job.





Ronald Mahan said...

John told us - "His election was not about the lesser of two evils...it was about the choice of evils." Let's compare evils? Clinton facilitated the sale of our uranium to Russia, Kept top secret information on a computer in her basement where it could be hacked, paid for a false report on Trump's Russian affairs & then got the FBI to use that information to start an investigation on candidate Trump- and etc. Trump was reported to have had numerous affairs with women other than his wife, been involved in many bankruptcies, called a racist for making insulting remarks about illegal immigrant criminals, etc. Neither had a squeaky clean history - but Clinton - as a professional politician - had pledged to continue many of President Obama's liberal policies. In marked contrast - Trump was a professional businessman - who promised to drain the Washington Swamp & Make America Great again & put his foot in his mouth on a regular basis. I just had to vote for Trump because I believed Trump lied less than Clinton. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course - they both could probably be saved by Jesus - if they repented and accepted Jesus as their savior.

Steve said...

@Larry G

They don't need to climb a wall to get here. They come across in vans. The drivers are told which lane to cross the border in, and at what time. There are border guards who have been bribed to allow these vans of workers across. The guys who did the concrete work on my property came across that way. The white guy who brought them up freely admitted that's how he gets his crews. He has to pay to get them here, but it's far cheaper to "order" a Mexican and pay poor wages than to try and find a white boy here in DFW who is willing to work hard outside in mid-summer for minimum wage.

Like I said earlier – you want to stop them coming across? You don't need a fence or wall. You need a law which would hold the employer accountable. I don't know of any employers who would be willing to do 5 years in jail and pay a steep fine in order to save a few bucks in wages.

Margery Bills said...

I love President Donald Trump. :-) (Is that figueritively speaking? Who cares).

John Wells said...

Ronald: Before you decide which evil you prefer, make sure you have your facts right. Repeating ridiculous accusations from the Trump campaign or right wing conspiracy sites does not give much credibility to your choice. 1. Allegations of a Hillary Clinton "quid pro quo" deal giving Russia ownership of one-fifth of U.S. uranium deposits in exchange for $145 million in donations to the Clinton Foundation turned out to be nothing more than just an unsubstantiated rumor...and the fact is that no uranium was ever exported to Russia 2. None of the information Clinton kept on her home server was deemed to be a matter of national security and there was no evidence that any of the information had been hacked. 3. It is not out of the ordinary for a candidate to hire someone to research the background of an opponent - in this case, any possible connections between Mr. Trump, his businesses, campaign team and Russia. The Steele Dossier as it became known was not an attempt to merely create a false report and contained enough credible information for an FBI investigation - an investigation ordered by Obama...not Clinton. 4. I'm surprised you didn't add the long unsubstantiated and totally ridiculous "Clinton Kill List" to your reasons why Hillary was a bad choice. As for who lies more - it comes down to typical political spin which is always loosely based on at least some amount of truth vs. blatant lies repeated over and over again - and I am afraid Trump is the bigger liar - hands down. So the choice of evils really only comes down to a career politician vs. a career businessman...both with a relatively equal amount of baggage. In case you hadn't noticed, this country is run by career politicians and throwing a complete outsider on top is not the answer. Repeating Trump's stupid false promise tag lines of "drain the Washington Swamp" and "Make America Great again" certainly appealed to voters. Unfortunately the vast majority of people who voted for Trump simply refuse to look at the big picture and have the same level of maturity as him. This country doesn't need someone who considers being politically incorrect to be an asset - this country needs a compassionate statesman. Trump got into office for the exact same reason Obama did - a false perception of some new direction for the country from an out of the ordinary candidate. I did not vote because every election in recent history has been a matter of the lesser of two evils and in this case - both candidates were pretty equally matched when it comes to evil. As a person who doesn't care for the liberal agenda and believes in and lives by conservative values, it is really a shame that Trump became the choice the party ended up with.

Margery Bills said...

Figuratively - sp.

Margery Bills said...

Literally means for real.

Margery Bills said...

President Trump earned his billions by smartness and hard work. He only inherited a little. He is a brilliant genius so don't let his common talk fool you. His heart is in the right place and he has a heart of gold so don't let his bluster fool you. No one is perfect. I admire the fact that he saw a need and rose to make the effort as a loyal American who cares.

Margery Bills said...

We need to support the people who take on these horrible responsibilities. This is our duty.

Dizzy-Dick said...

Regardless of what you say, I still like Trump, voted for him, and will vote for him again. I suppose you prefer Hillary????

John Wells said...

Like I have said may times before...there was no lesser of two evils in this election. I would have actually voted had Ted Cruz won the nomination. He was a far more logical choice for furthering conservative ideals in this country than Donald Trump. Voting for Trump just to beat Hillary is pathetic.

Gorges Smythe said...

Interesting disclaimer, but if you're so smart as to make that claim, why is Trump the billionaire instead of you?

Larry G said...

Trump is clearly a very successful real estate businessman -no question about it.

He also won the election fair and square - people did have a choice and they made it.

But the man is a flaming idiot and I'n not be surprised if working for him in his businesses is just as chaotic as his Presidency.

Words do matter. He's pissed off a lot more than "snowflakes" and pissed off people do remember not only in this country but overseas...

His supporters love him for his anti-elite, anti-Politically correct style and even folks who don't like him have gotta admit - he is his own person... and he's not going to be "handled".

Whether or not he can lead, get legislation passed, keep a GOP congress in 2018, and win back world leaders - we'll see.

He is our duly elected POTUS - but he's also a flaming idiot who is going to do great harm to the country if he don't grow up pretty soon.

my two cents.. I'm sure others mileage will vary !!

WhyR said...

A president is supposed to lead his people, yet this one can think of no one but himself. He knew right away, while golfing, that the Hawaiian missile warning was false, yet the guy who tweets constantly did not think or care to tweet this to the Hawaiian people. His own cabinet members call him a moron. This is unkind and unfair to morons. He is a perfect Republican president- he has admitted that he'll sign anything his party puts in front of him, which is all the party wants or needs from a president. He knows nothing about anything, as he doesn't read. Nothing he says is worth anything because he forgets what he said as soon as he says it. He thrives in chaos and creates it every day, because in chaos you can steal. He was never a successful businessman- 6 bankruptcies? Are you kidding me? No banks will lend to him anymore. He's blackmailable, which means he can be led about like a bull with a ring in its nose by whomever has the dirt on him, like porn stars and Putin. He certainly doesn't work for us. And Hillary would have been as bad as trump? Somebody needs to check their facts.
John, it's been interesting to see you finally state in print your feelings about trump. I wonder if you had feared driving away some of your most ardent supporters. Well, cat's out of the bag now.

Ronald Mahan said...

"Win back World leaders - we'll see"?

We Trump supporters didn't vote for Trump to do that! We want America to win back our manufacturing & good jobs. And that businessman turned President has already let World Leaders know that is the way the cookie will crumble from now on. .At the end of his first year - he finally got Ryan & McCormick to get our U.S. Manufacturing Tax reduced from 35 % to 21%. Then like black magic - last week, Toyota/Mazda said they would invest $1.6 billion to build an auto plant near Huntsville, Alabama. Guess those cats know money can be made in nAmerica again? . And the American stock market looks like it loves what Trump is doing - by advancing past $25,000!

TRUMP is doing what he said he would do - and Americans are being helped. Maybe being evil helps?

Larry G said...

Ron - foreign manufacturers were ALREADY putting plants in the US , LONG before Trump:

Toyota (Japanese)

Georgetown, KY - Camry, Avalon, Lexus ES350
San Antonio, TX - Tacoma, Tundra
Blue Springs, MS - Corolla
Princeton, IN - Sienna, Highlander, Sequoia
Nissan (Japanese)

Canton, MS - Altima, Titan, Frontier, Murano, NV
Smyrna, TN - Altima, Maxima, Rogue, Leaf, Pathfinder, Infiniti QX60
Honda (Japanese)

Greensburg, IN - CR-V, Civic
East Liberty, OH - CR-V, Acura MDX, Acura RDX
Marysville, OH - Accord, Acura TLX, Acura NSX, Acura ILX
Lincoln, AL - Pilot, Ridgeline, Odyssey, Acura MDX
Subaru (Japanese)

Lafayette, IN - Legacy, Outback, Impreza
Volkswagen (German)

Chattanooga, TN - Passat, Atlas
BMW (German)

Greer, SC - X3, X4, X5, X6
Daimler (German)

Vance, AL - Mercedes-Benz M/GLE, Mercedes-Benz GLS, Mercedes-Benz C
Ladson, SC - Mercedes-Benz Metris, Mercedes-Benz Sprinter
Hyundai (South Korean)

Montgomery, AL - Sonata, Santa Fe, Elantra
Kia (South Korean)

West Point, GA - Optima, Sorento
Fiat Chrysler (Italian)

Belvidere, IL - Jeep Cherokee
Detroit, MI - Jeep Grand Cherokee, Dodge Durango
Toledo, OH - Jeep Wrangler
Warren, MI - Ram 1500

So why did those plants locate in the US - before Trump if we had a 35% tax rate ?

Answer - because we didn't. We had a 35% "statutory" rate than almost no manufacturer actually paid.. because they had loopholes. GE paid zero taxes.. and so did dozens of other companies because of special tax breaks.

and guess what - they took those loopholes away when they lowered the statutory rate and some of those companies now have to pay MORE than they did before!!! They're having to pay their lobbyists overtime to go get their loopholes back.

We live in a Global Economy - that's the reality. We're competing against all the other countries for products and labor - - which most Republicans will tell you is the way the economy SHOULD work. If we try to protect jobs in this country - other countries are going to do it to us also. Trump is dumb as a stump on this issue and he's lying to folks about "bringing our jobs back".. We have to COMPETE for those jobs and that means we have to be much better educated.. if we are going to do that and instead we got a bunch of lazy asses that want to be "protected"... by of all things - the govt.

Now what kind of REAL Conservative wants the govt to "protect" him? Geeze, Ron...



Ronald Mahan said...

And because we live & compete in a global economy - we sure as Hell cannot continue taxing our manufacturing at 35 % - while our overseas manufacturing is taxed at about 20 %. That is one reason our companies like to flee from America. But it took a businessman like TRUMP recognize & get rid of that issue!

I certainly want Trump to keep on doing what he has been doing. Hopefully - in the future America can make all the cars made on this planet! And reverse the terrible trade balance we had have and Democrats just ignored. Wouldn't that help - Make America Great - and provide plenty of jobs.?

BTW - what about our great stock market. Heard this morning it will soon be at $26,000. Guess you Dems think Obama is responsible? Of course Obama does hold the record - for the most Americans on FOOD STAMPS!

WhyR said...

As "Tater Salad" likes to say, "you can't fix stupid".

Larry G said...

re" because we live in a Global Economy" ... yes.. and it was already shown that there are dozens of existing foreign auto plants ALREADY in the US that were built well before Trump... so what explains that if we had such terrible taxes? They got tax breaks to come here! We paid "incentives" to get companies to locate here or stay here.

The thing is that Trump who knows real estate, does not understand the global economy especially when it comes to trade. You cannot keep other countries products out of our country - without them retaliating... so you can initially "bring back a plant" in Ohio or whatever but if that plant's labor costs are higher than an overseas plant then the overseas plant is going to import their product to the US - cheaper than we are making it. If we don't let them import then they're not going to let us import our products, so our own folks are going to end up paying MORE for autos AND formerly imported products - which is like a tax that reduces your income... you buy LESS than you could because products cost MORE.

The drone that John has bought is a good example of this. It comes from China? Why?

If Trump outlaws drones from China so we can make them , what happens? Well , that drone that John got for around 1K is going to end up costing 1.5 or 2K .. as well a circuit boards.. and all manner of other things.. some of which may longer be available at all or we end up with a Black Market.. like you see right now in countries that do restrict imports.

We have to have free trade AND we have to compete.. which means we have to be able to make stuff - as cheap as they do overseas if we are going to be able to compete and get our share. Again, we can block their imports.. but then we're going to end up with a higher price product and probably lower quality and some things just not available.


So the irony here is that Trump is promising to "protect" workers from having to compete in the global economy so they'll not have to become better educated so we can actually compete head to head with other countries. Our workers want Trump to "protect" them which if you think about it is little better than a Union... "protecting" jobs.

We can't wall off the rest of the world.. That's a big FAIL and most REAL conservatives know it. Trump is to the USA what Evita was to Argentina.. a populist promising people things to get their support.. rather than telling them the truth about the realities.

People need to think for themselves here.. Trump is scamming folks just like Evita did.

Ronald Mahan said...

I do not doubt for a second that you believe what you told us. And there are plenty of us - who elected the current President - with the help of the U.S. Constitution Electoral Process - who have some different thoughts.

Trump & Congress did not restrict imports - all they did was lower American taxes - so our American companies would not be tempted to relocate oversea where their taxes would be lower. And Trump let our overseas neighbors know we Americans were no longer going to be treated like a stepchild - with the terrible trade imbalances that currently exist with most of our trading partners. And he also told The European Countries Nato & the United Nations they were all going to have start paying their FAIR SHARE! Guess the Bush family & Obama liked things the way they were - but the Americans paying the bills - certainly thought they were getting screwed. Did Larry G. think these things were fair?

And to demonstrate he was a serious President of the most powerful Nation on this planet - he dropped a bunch of missiles in Syria on an airfield that was used to distribute poison gas on the Syrian rebels. And a huge bomb to deter Afganistan rebels. And told the Rocket Man - he had a big nuclear button on his desk - that really worked.

And then like magic - our American business improved & our oversea neighbors started treating Americans like friends instead of another country to take advantage of. John Wells talks about how evil Trump is. I prefer think Trump is more like Teddy Roosevelt - who said little - but carried a big stick!

America admittedly has higher labor costs - but lower fuel costs, lower transportation costs, better environmental procedure, more advanced technology , and other cost items - compared to our competition - which helps American manufacturing in the USA - so don't throw in the towel for us. There is lots of life left in working Americans!

And don't forget what our stock market is telling you. American business is doing a lots better!

Larry G said...

Ron -

I respect your point of view. and will leave it at that..

Steve said...

@Ronald

Well, Ireland still has us beat, offering a 12.5% corporate tax rate. That's why so many companies (like Apple) have shifted there. That offshoring money isn't coming home. Ever. It's laughable to think this corporate tax cut will make America competitive. It's a scam, just like all the serious economists have said. Repeatedly.

Now that the GOP Tax Scam has passed, and is projected to add as much as $2.2 Trillion to the deficit, those fair weather "fiscal" conservatives have announced the only way to offset the projected increase is to cut entitlements. So, you will likely see some deep cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, and yes, Social Security is now on the chopping block. Minimum retirement age will be pushed back, and benefits will be cut.

And there you have the fiscal conservative tax policy. Disproportionately reduced taxes for the extremely wealthy, and do it by shifting the burden to the middle class and poor. Unfortunately, you likely won't live to see the full extent of the damage your boy Trump will do to the US economy. But I will, and so will my kids.

Steve said...

Oh, and the thought that Trump is some kind of financial genius with what he did with his large inheritance is a joke. He turned his inheritance into an estimated $4 billion. Had he simply invested in index funds, his net worth would be as much as $13 billion. I think it makes him look pretty stupid, actually.

The above was reported in Fortune magazine (among many others). Of course, I expect you'll call anything that cuts the legs out of your argument "fake news."

Blind faith is just that.

Steve said...

@Ronald

Oh, and given your belief that Trump is such a trade genius – you might find this interesting.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-trade/america-last-eu-says-trump-is-losing-on-trade-idUSKBN1F425S

Of course you and the other 32% of Americans who continue to be fooled by Trump and think he's some sort of genius will likely just call this Fake News. I'm just thankful that the other 68% of Americans see him for the con man that he is. Sad.

pamit said...

Great commentary folks. I like this little forum of folks that follow John's blog. Way more egalitarian and varied than my Facebook coterie. (By the way, I sent John Wells a FB friend request years ago, which he never accepted - poor me!)

I'm still amazed that folks are repeating the "Hillary sells uranium to the Russians" rumor. Ronald, do you also believe that Hillary and Bill ran a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor in DC? That Hillary murdered that fellow who was mugged? That the Clinton Foundation is a complete shill for family profits?

Those of you who believe that Hillary was the lesser of two evils, just contemplate the variety and absurdity of the many, many falsehoods put out about her and her family. Most of those, put out by Fox and Friends, Ailes, the Russians, whoEVER, were completely false. So "the lesser of two evils", as a reason for voting for the most terrible President we've ever had, certainly brands one as (I'll be kind) a fool, used and thrown away by the GOP.

And if you voted for Trump because he would "shake things up" - your lazy thinking has gotten us into a fine pickle. Please stay home if the only reason you vote is to "shake things up".


Steve said...

@pamit

Boom. Spot on! It's painfully obvious the conservative crowd is the largest consumer of fake news. The party of family values? The party of fiscal responsibility? This is what we get when education is underfunded for decades on end.

Aaron said...

The conservative version...
Give me ONLY your educated, your rich, your overweight consumers yearning to shop into debt.
(And piss on the rest because they’re all on welfare and/or a color I don’t like)

Aaron said...

Uhhh... I’m ok with some “low life” businesses because quite frankly, I don’t want the price of meat, produce, housing, construction, and everything else to go up 100-400%.
The problem is getting even just one Republican to admit we NEED cheap labor to keep costs down - they all just duck their heads in the sand.
Personally, I am 100% for deporting undocumented immigrants because when we’re starving to death, Republicans might actually admit we need them more than they need us.

Larry G said...

illegal workers that are the cheap labor and who then have kids that are not legal , i.e. anchor babies are what Trump voters say they want "fixed" with a "wall" which will not fix that problem. You fix that problem with a real E-Verify like Canada has. You establish a real functioning guest worker program where the temporary worker has to return and if an employer is caught hiring illegal workers the employer is heavily fined and/or sent to jail. If you actually did that -you'd not need a "wall" which is mostly symbolic.. as people will tunnel under, balloon over or go around via the ocean.. or just blow hole in it in the more remote places.

Here's the other problem for American workers: ' The growing role of a college degree in landing a job is well documented. Now, new household employment data reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) show that Americans with college degrees can account for all of the net new jobs created over the last decade. In stark contrast, the number of Americans with high school degrees or less who are employed, in this ninth year of economic expansion, has fallen by 2,995,000."


American workers with just high school who lose their factory jobs are terrified and desperate.. people in their 40's and 50's that lose their factory jobs AND their health car benefits don't want to become computer programmers or similar and they don't want to leave their homes where they grew up. But that is not the fault of immigration and it won't get fixed by stopping immigration unless those workers want to earn 1/2 what they used to earn working as cheap labor - anyhow.

The Dems did not have a solution and said little about what to do - Trump saw the problem and promised to "fix" it by shutting down immigration and "bringing jobs back".. and people believe it.

What's going on now - is similar to what happened in the industrial revolution in the 1800's.. it's new kind of "industrial revolution" and the transition is just as tough and people affected by it are scared. and all they want is their jobs back.

But no person, even the head of a country can really do that. The forces of change in the economy are really automation of virtually every job that exists not only factory workers, but Doctors, Lawyers, College professors, scientists, etc..ALL of them now have to deal with work that is computerized. .. you have to be able to use a keyboard and understand how the software works.. etc.

John Wells is an example of someone who WANTS to LEARN -to use a computer.. to learn how to build and operate things from solar to pepino to his drone.. etc.. But a lot of folks who have been thrown out of work are terrified of technology.. and don't want to go back and learn... they just want their jobs back and if some strong-type leader promises to bring their back - they'll take that guy over another politician that says "sorry, you're screwed unless you go back to school and move to the city" and live in an apartment and work next to 20-something year old nerds... not an very appetizing prospect...

..... continue

Larry G said...

.... continued

If you want to see an impressive map - GOOGLE - "map of people on social security disability" and you'll see a map of where factory jobs have gone away and people have
signed up for welfare like social security disability if they can get it..

If you want to then GOOGLE " map of where opioid addiction is a problem" .. you'll see a
very similar map.. people without jobs .. have lost hope and now buy drugs with their
welfare".

One more map - GOOGLE " where people don't have health insurance".. same map...

we used to talk about this with respect to inner cities but go do those maps and you'll see the problem has shifted to where factories are closed and rural America.

These are the Trump voters.. The cities of the US where people DO have jobs .. and college and health insurance - don't vote for Trump.

so we have two America's and the Trump folks fervently believe they are going to be rescued by Trump bringing their jobs back..

If the folks who don't have jobs - don't get jobs.. they're going to continue to vote for people like Trump who acknowledge their plight and say they are going to help them.

The irony is that they are also many of the same folks who have disdain and contempt for "government" and those who are on "welfare".


It's a mess.

Steve said...

Those unskilled factory jobs are not coming back.

A smart business owner can either hire a minimally educated person who will sometimes not show up for work, may be tired and not perform at 100%, make mistakes, gets sick and takes days off, have family "issues" and take days off, complains they aren't paid enough, wants healthcare insurance, requires me to pay unemployment insurance, will leave with little notice if a better opportunity is available, has variable quality when working. The list goes on. Ask any HR person.

OR

The smart business owner can buy a robotic piece of equipment that can be programmed and operated by a single person. That robot can do the work of many workers at a faster rate with more accuracy. That robot can work 24 hr. shifts without stopping. The costs to operate that robot include electricity and spare parts. That robot doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs, take sick days, ask for healthcare, file complaints against the business, is more profitable, etc. Granted, the initial cost is higher, but the ROI can occur very quickly.

If you are able to read, read Hillbilly Elegy. It'll be an eye opener – written by a man who comes from the blue collar working class. He's seen both sides of the equation.

In summary, those good jobs for low skilled workers won't be coming back. To think otherwise is simply foolish. And trust me, no wall is going to change any of the above.

Larry G said...

re: the robots. Yes. but there ARE jobs for skilled people to design, build, operate, troubleshoot and repair robots.. drones.. software, IT, medical equipment, autonomous vehicles, etc.. There are GOOD jobs for the educated and skilled and it does not take 4 years of college.. 2 years at a Community college will often get you a occupational certificate for a wide variety of fields where there are jobs.

But you have to be the one to do this.. the govt is not going to "rescue" you.. or "bring your job back" and really, no self-respecting person should be expecting the govt to bring your jobs back. Do the work you need to do - to get trained - for the jobs that ARE here and available..

WhyR said...

What really gives me hope are the articles in small town papers of new wind and solar farms being permitted and built- these are excellent construction and maintenance jobs being created. Somewhat small in number, sure, but we're headed in a good direction. But these jobs pale in number to the jobs that would be created instantly; high-paying construction jobs, if only Congress could get off the dime and pass an infrastructure bill. Just replacing deteriorating bridges alone would be a massive, much needed undertaking. But instead we get a $1.5 trillion giveaway to people and companies that don't need it and that only gives republicans an excuse to attack Social Security and Medicare. Will trump's congress ever pass an infrastructure bill? Probably about the time pigs sprout wings and fly, because "we don't have any money now"